Is the .20 caliber turning a corner?

last year I got in on a special order for a HW50s in .20 caliber at AOA. At the time I believe AOA was saying if they had 10 interested parties they would place an order from Weihrauch. I known there was another group generated after my group. As I was doing my usual browse at AOA's website this morning I  noticed that they are now offering the  HW50s in .20 cal as well as .177 and .22.

Interesting,  don't you think?

I remember that order, although I did not get in on it. Remind me, was that for the regular model? I would absolutely jump on the HW50S Hunter model in .20. Although to this date I still see folk complaining about the Galling issue with their 50. I have the HW30 Urban Pro and really like that configuration since I do not use irons and like the slick looks. Another option is to see if they would do an HW95 Field Pro in .20. The one I kinda regret letting get by me, R9 in .20 sold at a very reasonable price and local to me to boot. Have heard enough good and bad about the caliber to make me want to check it out for myself. 

Posted by: @intenseaty

I remember that order, although I did not get in on it. Remind me, was that for the regular model? I would absolutely jump on the HW50S Hunter model in .20. Although to this date I still see folk complaining about the Galling issue with their 50. I have the HW30 Urban Pro and really like that configuration since I do not use irons and like the slick looks. Another option is to see if they would do an HW95 Field Pro in .20. The one I kinda regret letting get by me, R9 in .20 sold at a very reasonable price and local to me to boot. Have heard enough good and bad about the caliber to make me want to check it out for myself. 

Intenseaty... your recall is good, it was the regular "s" model

so your question was has .20 turned the corner and the answer is, NO, still disappearing into obscurity 

but if you are testing pellets for .20, it is easy, Pyramyd Air offers 5 different types and so when the ammo disappears you will have a wall hanger 

Am a kind of 5mm fan.  Even though I only keep 4 5mm rifles, still count myself as a fan.

 Even with fans...it's a dead duck  GOD BLESS the pellet makers that stillmake good pellets for this "forgotten caliber".

(And in it's decline...DARWIN  won...aren't any pellets available now that aren't worth a try.  Only "NEW" 5mm pellet  marketed in recent years  is the 15.9 JSB's.

...in the past, were some pretty crappy 5mm pellet that dropped out of production...or as far as a 5 rifle test can tell, they aren't missed.  The few we have NOW are more like the creme-of-the-crop.

Quick tests:

1.What  caliber has the LEAST pellet offerings at this date.

2. what caliber has the least  "buy it now" new rifles?

3, Other than just liking the 5mm...what does it do better NOW...wnhich maight be different from what it did "then" when there weren't so many .177 or .22 pellet choices?

I personally :LIKE 5mm....but over all, seems like NOT enough airguners like the "5mm compromise" today.  Not to say it wasn't a good compromise "back when"

Stock up on pellets, now!

My very first air gun was a Sheridan Model H.  LOVED that pistol.  I've also owned quite a few Sheridan C's and an F or two.  I also owned a Beeman R1AW, which only came in .20.  While I don't currently own one, I'm a fan of .20.  I for one would be saddened to see it die.  The compromise is actually real.  Harder hitting than .177, and flatter trajectory than .22.  The R1 powerplant was IMHO perfectly suited to .20.

A lot of people out there still shooting them and apparently some still interested in buying them. Mine is a keeper. 

there will always be us who love the .20 ..V8s and Jazz,there will always be those that don't.

The .20/5.0 mm airguns are not going the way of extinction any time soon. While Beeman was a marketing genius who sold a vast number of ‘gimicky’ pellets in every caliber of the time, the remaining .20 pellets are the only ones that continue to sell the best and the most profitable to the pellet makers. Yes it would be nice to have a wadcutter or hollow point in .20, but does one really need them when ballistically superior domed diabolos out perform them?!? As long as top end makers like Weihrauch and Daystate continue to produce .20 guns, h&n and jsb will continue to produce the required ammo. 

Posted by: @tk171

The .20/5.0 mm airguns are not going the way of extinction any time soon. While Beeman was a marketing genius who sold a vast number of ‘gimicky’ pellets in every caliber of the time, the remaining .20 pellets are the only ones that continue to sell the best and the most profitable to the pellet makers. Yes it would be nice to have a wadcutter or hollow point in .20, but does one really need them when ballistically superior domed diabolos out perform them?!? As long as top end makers like Weihrauch and Daystate continue to produce .20 guns, h&n and jsb will continue to produce the required ammo. 

Have you tried the 0.20" Cal Predators?
USUALLY they shoot well out to 45 yards in barrels that like the JSB's

And they create a 0.30 cal wound channel when impacting above 600 fps.

Just an idea . . .

HM

Yes Sir Hector i have some of the preds. The exception to the rule i suppose. They shot ok in my r1k. The old dynamics pellets were awesome but h&n dropped the line. Fts seem to fillmost of my .20 needs though. Now that you mentioned the preds, i may try them in my Hw30 fir shits and giggles🙂

the tin of preds i have are on the back of the locker collecting dust. May be time to rediscover them. 

Are still good .20 pellets made..and I don’t doubt that there will be at least some type of pellets made for years to come. Good stocks of out of recent production pellets here and there.

If looking today and wanting to order some that are in stock, might be better to look to web-sites you didn’t often order from in the past.

But being honest….do you really expect a 5mm surge in popularity? (and if so..why, other than we “like them”).

Still seems pretty much on life support rather than thriving.,,,but so far, not one has signed a DNR.

Turning a corner? No, not unless one or maybe 2 gun makers out there decide to toss a new .20 caliber rifle into the mix and rumor has it Hector up there may be considering the new D34 EMS platform as a base for custom .20's using it. I also see now and then shooters who either build or have custom .20 cal guns built and as already mentioned, Weihrauch, Daystate and Air Force still build guns in the caliber so I'd like to think while not gaining, .20 isn't fading into total obscurity either.

Also only noticed one reply in this thread, from JiminPGH, who mentioned Sheridans. Everyone seems to mention the Beeman's and Weihrauch rifles but the Sheridans are guns everyone seems to toss by the wayside but there are still 10's of 1000's out there. They come up for sale fairly often and those guns and the shooters who love them are a part of why, while the caliber is a niche one, it's still here and pellets being made for it and will be for years to come.

I own 8 myself., 7 springers and the above mentioned and often disregarded Sheridan. Mine is a 1973 Sheridan Silver Streak. There are 8 pellets still being made for .20 although it should probably be considered 6 since the Daystate labeled Kaisers are the same pellets as the H&N FTT 11.42gr and the Daystate Sovereigns are basically the JSB Exact 13.73gr. I have some of everything still made except those Sovereigns plus a sleeve of 10 tins of the now discontinued H&N Spitzkugel pellets I managed to get my hands on when AoA was selling off the last of their stock and at least 4 of those 8 shoot very well in my rifles.

While I won't go crazy, I have a small stockpile of .20 cal pellets and I add a tin or 2 every now and then. Still not hard to find 🙂

I aways liked the 20 cal - nice compromise between 177/22.  it is like the 16ga powder burner-when built on a gage specific frame and not a 12 ga frame as a after thought.

Besides the Benji's, what am I missing? I can't find those in stock but not too concerned. Those never worked out in any RWS or Weichrauchs in .20. IIRC, they fit super tight into the breech.

First I've seen Weihrauch branded so I guess 9 choices and I don't have the Daystate Sovereigns. Pic of what I do have although I X'd out the H&N's because they don't make those anymore but looks like you have them all. Benji's only shoot decent in my Silver Streak and even that one shoots the H&N and JSB better.

Cant get to the “held for ransom” old photobucket photos.

But the 5mm once spanned from about 10gr. (H&N WC’s) to about 23.7gr. (Eun Jin)...and pretty much most points in between.

Most of those were basically “crap”...only occasionally would you find something that really liked those odd ones.

The ones left today (As new made...not old stock) are basically the potential  “winners”….two JSB’s, two H&N, and one (kind of crappy) Benjamin.

(Over all....seems like Darwin was right....the best do survive longer.)

@stevep

Hi Steve,

the Weihrauch brand is clearly JSB but vary slightly in weight; 13.3gn vs. standard Exacts in 13.73. Haven't sorted out an opinion on any differences yet, but with so few .20's available, figured what the hell. 😀 

Of these12....two are the same thing in different packages, one is the same now just with a new label...and I could definitely live without the other 9.

Saw this on the Theoben owners group on FB and thought it relevant. Probably just JSB Exacts but at least shows some commitment by HW to .20

@xmdx13x HW has a little more commitment than just the pellets. They still make .20 caliber models of most of their rifles.

@steveP I could have worded the post better but it was meant to provide further evidence of HW’s commitment to .20 guns they are making. .20 ammo is probably the hardest to find and if they have their own branded pellets they can ensure that their retailers have pellets for their guns.

Out of curiosity has anyone ever seen or tried their ammo? Says it’s designed for HW barrels

I'm waiting for straitflite to do some more testing with his and fill everyone in before I decide to pony up the $19.95 a tin price but as he mentioned, they're made in the Czech Republic so made by JSB even though the weigh is a hair different. A healthy part of what I have stashed came from Jeff at Trenier Outdoors and AoA so a couple places you can check out.

Current problem is stock for pretty much everything to do with pellets is limited since Covid is affecting Europe just as bad as it is here.

  The better pellets for my R-9 were the Crosman bulk Premiers in the small cardboard box,also RWS Meisterkugein  and some Beemans.

  I like the .20 a lot more than the.177 ;for sure pellet choice has become too slim, I also have 16 ga. Ithaca model 37 and those shells are hard to come by....what next no V8s....every year I have to farther down the age list to find "my group".

Once in a rare while, someone pops up selling a box or 3 of the old Crosman .20 cal pellets, I just seem to always be 5 minutes late when they do...lol. Also found some a few years back, but the Ebay seller while he had a good price, was in the UK and refused to ship to the US.

Oh well, someday it might happen but I got a pretty healthy supply of what is available and they all shoot very well in the 8 .20's I have so far.

I don't think anyone will be tossing out their Blue Streaks anytime soon. I've noticed quite a few being listed lately for $300 or thereabouts....and being purchased. Even if .20 ammo dries up, couldn't a .22 be swaged down? I'm not sure how well they would shoot but, given there are a lot of .22 variations, one or two might work. 

I've taken rabbits with my P1 in .20.  I only need a choice of a few pellets to get something that works.  A dome is good enough for close hunting.  

I think I might use that one for feathered barn rats this year...

I own a few Diana .20 caliber springers sourced from some of Hector's "Group Buys" 
A 34K - CCA 5,0 / .20 (6 A.O. Martínez), 430 Stutzen .20 von L-W and a Model 54 (12. A.O. Martínez) ... all these air rifles have Lothar Walther barrels.

For my purposes, I've found the .20/5mm caliber is a good compromise-caliber for the energy-output my spring-&-piston rifles produce.
I've learned the Diana model 54/52/48 series power-plants were mostly conceived-and-engineered to propel .22 caliber pellets foremost.
As such, these magnum spring&piston air rifles can easily tax the design-parameters of light-weight (7.9gr and less) .177 caliber pellets.
.22 vs .177 ... in this vain, the .20/5mm projectiles present an excellent compromise with a flatter trajectory and satisfactory power/penetration.

With the current trend towards PCP air rifles going so strong, the .20/5mm caliber compromise has lost its place.
As the flexible power-reserve of most PCP systems can easily manage heavy for-bore pellets while retaining good velocity.
The same cannot be said of springers.

Seems the trend towards PCPs continues unabated - I've fallen in-line by recently purchasing my first few.
The spring-&-piston air rifle may-well become relegated ... to a tool of third-world countries or impoverished nations.
Whose Governments prohibit firearms ownership by the indigenous populations.

As such it is easy to foresee, the spring&piston air rifle going-the-way of the dodo bird and passenger pigeon.
Along with the .20/5mm pellet.
And not so-far behind are those aging air gunners that so-love these airgun-relics ... myself in the first rank.

I have three...R9 .20 and two Sheridans...

True. Also don't picture either Webley or Hatsan, except for maybe the Raider barrels, springing for LW or even HW barrels to make inexpensive break barrels with. The barrel by itself would be worth more than the entire gun...lol.

So we are stuck with:

1. Did Hatsan make  the investment in making 5mmm barrels only to use them on the Webley contracts.

2. Did Webley contract a 3rd party to make the barrels (as they didn't make 5mm before).

3. did some minor player take the 3^rd party contract to produce the 5mm barrels?

4. Did a major player take the contract and make them as “un-branded 2nds”.

The ALL IMPORTANT QUESTION...who gives a rat’sarse who made them so long as the barrels shoot well.

Also a very moot point since Hatsan ain't making them anymore and when contacted a year or so ago about the possibility of bringing a new .20 to market said it would be cost prohibitive for such a small market. Always thought their Model 95 springer would make a nice platform for a .20 caliber as long as they got the barrel right.

Not sure at this point who's even building Webley branded guns since no retailers in the US even sell them anymore except maybe the Nemesis pistol and that's made in China.

Moot point....seems so very appropriate for the whole 5mm discussion.

Solely directed at Webley/Hatsan .20's since it's what we were talking about and they stopped making them. May likely come a day when Weihrauch does too but it hasn't come yet although I admit to waiting for it.

Posted by: @austin870

You 20 cal guys are going to love the new 23.5 cal. It has more stopping power than the 22 cal but flatter shooting than the 25 cal... lol 

 Whoops... wallet just caught fire... gonna let it smoulder while we wait for the new models to start shipping...

Posted by: @gratewhitehuntr

Posted by: @austin870

You 20 cal guys are going to love the new 23.5 cal. It has more stopping power than the 22 cal but flatter shooting than the 25 cal... lol 

 Whoops... wallet just caught fire... gonna let it smoulder while we wait for the new models to start shipping...

We are always seeking that elusive "perceived" edge in shooting as a sport. The only sportsmen more silly than us are fishermen.  I still have boxes in my basement of little rubber squiglies that I just could not live without.  

You should see the hoard of Cleo spoons and other "up north" lures I got at a moving sale.

Most of the lures are useless in FL, and I should probably dump them on ebay, but they're soooo pretty!

Too pretty to use...

Back in the late eighties I was an apprentice plumber trying to raise a family in Florida. I fixed something in exchange for a Sheridan bluestreak. It allowed me to hunt squirrel, rabbit. Feral chickens and even a quail or 2 in orange groves where I couldn't use a firearm. That made the grocery budget go farther many times. Even when I got to the point I could afford more gun I often hunted with a 41 mag and the Sheridan . I sold it many years ago and have always regretted it. I have resisted getting any air rifles that weren't .177 or 22. I was doing just fine with this plan right up until I was offered a nice bluestreak three weeks ago. Since my go-to pellets are no longer made I tried H&N FTT  the shoot great so I am good

@boscoebrea I love the .20 too and I have a Leshyi 2 in this caliber, 25 ftlbs. There are also  slugs in .20, Zan, and the new JSB pellets, so this caliber might still continue to exist. That is what we all hope!

@stevep-52 , have a look. https://zanprojectiles.com/shop/20-slugs/

Posted by: @valentinair

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@stevep-52 , have a look. https://zanprojectiles.com/shop/20-slugs//p >

Don't own a PCP in .20, but I do have 9 break barrels and a '73 Silver Streak, saw these and bought a couple boxes to tinker with just out of curiousity:

Not great and the fps is lower than with pellets, but they didn't shoot totally bad. Pellets in .20 I have plenty of, been buying here and there for the 5 years or so I've been shooting .20's and have multiples of everything in the picture. Just short of about 60,000 at last count 🙂

Ah the 40+ year old debate on the merits of .20 caliber.

YES there that special if the barrel & power plant are correctly matched !!

Oldie but goody thread lol.

Been a fan of .20 cal for long time myself.  Only had an old Sheridan pumper in .20cal. Wanted to get another rifle in .20cal But & got Custom Benjamin Marauder in .20cal. Gun is an absolute laser @50yards. Been my primary pest gun.

@djna 👍

Been a fan of the caliber for a long time.

I just put an EMS powerplant into a converted DIANA 34 with a short barrel that is delivering about 18 ft-lbs at the muzzle. 
The barrel was designed for the JSB 13.4's so I have hopes that it will be accurate.

The greatest pesting pellet in this caliber is the Predator PolyMag. It is the ONLY pellet that I consider capable of delivering some measure of "Hydrostatic Shock" to the target having witnessed some liquefied soft tissues in birds that were cleaned for eating.
They are accurate out to about 40 yards, so mostly used them in pigeons.

In PCP's the 16 grainer does better at long range.

Keep well and shoot straight!

HM