Informal Weighing of Pellets

I have always wondered, when shooting 14.3 Crosman Premiers, why 7-8 pellets would be in a single ragged hole at 20-25 yards and there would always be 2-3 fliers ruining the nice group?

Today I took out my P.A.C.T. Electronic scale and weighed 60 premiers.
These pellets have been washed in a hydro-static bath that I use to clean fired centerfire cases.

The weighing of 60 pellets, of course, is not an exact indication of the Crosman quality control but it gives us an area of discussion.

Note: I do not intend to weigh anymore of my pellets, regardless of their intended use.

Weight: Number:
14.1          1
14.2         7
14.3         22
14.4         20
14.5         10

So, 14.3-14.4 appears to be the normal for the 14.3 grain Premier pellets.

I will shoot two magazines of the 14.3 and two magazines of the 14.4 and see if there are still some fliers...

Tomorrow

You should check out the pellet reviews on Hard Air Magazine. Lots of measurements there for quite a few different types of pellets.

It is not only weighing them but you need to sort them by head size as well to get rid of the annoying fliers for any pellet brand and type if you want to shoot at long distances. They also need to be from the same lot batch to keep things consistent. Then you need to do the roll test, if you don't know what that is then you need to search youtube.

There is a lot more to accuracy than just weighting them.

It depends on whether getting 1/4 inch groups at 50 yards is worth it

to you.

HA

I weighed them for this excercise.

I will not do it again.

You might want to search the Yellow archives. Yrrah had some interesting methods such as slowly rolling pellets to judge concentricity. It's a lot to go through and just how far to take it will depend upon the intended use. FWIW, weight sorting seems the most bang for the least bucks. Works well with .22lr, too. I've read where CCI Green Tag is nothing more than Standard Velocity that has been weight sorted.

Red, can you elaborate on why weight sorting gives the best bang for the buck?  Most of what I've read over the last few years says the typical variance doesn't make much difference except at extreme distances, and that geometric differences play a bigger role at any distance.

One theory for why that holds true is that a slightly lighter pellet will earn relatively more muzzle velocity than a heavier pellet which will earn more muzzle energy, and that those tend to be somewhat offsetting.

Posted by: Frank in Fairfield

I have always wondered, when shooting 14.3 Crosman Premiers, why 7-8 pellets would be in a single ragged hole at 20-25 yards and there would always be 2-3 fliers ruining the nice group?

Today I took out my P.A.C.T. Electronic scale and weighed 60 premiers.
These pellets have been washed in a hydro-static bath that I use to clean fired centerfire cases.

The weighing of 60 pellets, of course, is not an exact indication of the Crosman quality control but it gives us an area of discussion.

Note: I do not intend to weigh anymore of my pellets, regardless of their intended use.

Weight: Number:
14.1          1
14.2         7
14.3         22
14.4         20
14.5         10

So, 14.3-14.4 appears to be the normal for the 14.3 grain Premier pellets.

I will shoot two magazines of the 14.3 and two magazines of the 14.4 and see if there are still some fliers...

Tomorrow

So I shot two magazines today.

One 14.4 and one 14.5.

Before shooting I smoothed out the skirts

The groups (patterns) were virtually the same.

I will not bother doing this again... ? 

Frank, I agree with you totally. Read a post by Michael Thomas of Thomas bench rest guns. It was posted on the GTA Forum. Now when he says that he did all the "anal" stuff that requires Soooooo much time, and that in the end it really made no difference at all, that says a whole lot. He said he gave up all that anal stuff and still managed to set 14 new national benchrest records, that's ALL I need to know. And ALL those 14 records were set with pellets shot right out of the tin. Enough said!

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=82839.msg795281#msg795281

Pure pellet weight variability makes very little difference to the point of impact at the short ranges you are testing, particularly from a PCP. The differences from a springer are greater but again will be small at those ranges. Weight variability will also tend to give a vertical distribution.

The question to me is what does the weight difference signify? After all the extra weight must be somewhere on the heavier pellets so is it on the head size, in the skirt, where is it and is it evenly distributed? Head size and more so uneven weight distribution will have effects on group size but there are plenty of other things which can also have an effect.

I never weigh pellets to sort them out for shooting.

If only shooting informally at close range then it shouldn't really matter much unless you want 1/4 groups or better at 50 yards.

Many think its a waste of time. Depends on the level of accuracy you really need determines the need and desire to do such things.

I have run weighed pellets within 1/10 of a grain and got plus or minus 1 to 2 feet per second varance over the chrony many being the exact same speed compared to subsequent shots.

I would not go through the trouble if shooting less than 50 yards or not competing where everything matters.

HA

Re weight-sorting, I was thinking it would be the simplest way to weed out at least one variable. I guess it would also depend on what causes the weight variations. Could be voids but it could also be changes in the alloy or simply size difference caused by mulitple dies. I believe Crosman in the tins are mixed batches. And dies will eventually wear beyond specs.

i'm amazed at the lengths gone to for accuracy...some work...some don't.

too many variables to have CONSISTENT, repeatable, accuracy...every time you shoot, something has changed that will affect accuracy; ambient temperature, wind speed and direction, light, humidity, size of the target, distance to target, scope, red dot or open sighting use, etc.

everything is relevant, but to what extent is the question. i think weight, speed and shape of the projectile are the most important factors to consider when shooting at any range/distance; to shoot 10 yards requires a different formula application than to shoot 50 yards. (especially with air guns)

i do not discount, nor discourage, weighing, but rather ask; how beneficial is it to your application?

i do weight when i'm handloading centerfire...both bullet and powder.

Yep, it's all about how much accuracy you need. Best quality airgun target pellets are as consistent as you can get. (And most expensive.) Look at military sniper fodder, built to match the gun.

I shoot from the tin.  I did try a little weighing and sorting a few years ago, but honestly, I didn't see results to justify the time and effort.  When I say "I shoot from the tin," I do spend some time and effort deciding WHICH tin.  I have had great results with simple Walmart Crosman hollowpoints in many guns, and that is my utility pellet.  For longer range accuracy, I prefer JSB domes.  Most of my guns prefer the 7.52 size.  I look at it this way: if a mfgr can sell pellets with a head size in the thousandths, they are probably on top of the QC game.  But having said that, I do have a couple of guns that shoot better with the cheap CPHPs than the expensive JSBs.  Try a bunch of different pellets, find one the gun likes, and for God's sake, write it down somewhere.  (FWIW my stable is almost exclusively .177.  I do currently own one .22 CO2 pistol.  I made that decision years ago, and have never looked back.)