A professional spring gun tune (kinda long)

I’ve been shooting and home-tuning springers for many years.  I know how to size a guide, set a spring, size a seal, put the right lubes in the right quantities in the right places, etc.  Let’s just say that I’m not a novice when it comes to the internals of a spring piston air rifle.  But I’m not a pro.  Also, I shy away from trigger work, beyond simple adjustment.  (I know my limitations.)  I’ve “tuned” rifles for friends, but never for money.  And, I’ve never had one done for money.  Until now. 

The gun in question is an RWS B320, which we all know is a Chinese clone of the venerable Beeman R9.  Why this gun, you may well ask?  Well, this particular B320 has a stamped serial number of B320001, which means it just may be the first production gun of this model.  I had done some internal work previously; JM Tarantula spring and Apex seal, tar and moly, etc.  It was shooting a reasonably smooth 780 with 7.9g CPHP when I sent it off.

Communication from the tuner was excellent, including acknowledgement of receipt of the rifle, a series of “discovery” photos of the disassembly, a small list of parts I needed to order from JM and have direct-shipped, as well as a list of parts the tuner needed to source directly, with pricing before he made the purchase.  (All of the “discovery” parts were not included in our original agreement.)

What I received back can only be described as a different gun.  Cocking is smooth and silent, and the shot cycle is just an uneventful quick thump.  The Rekord-clone trigger breaks cleanly and predictably, with zero creep.  I haven’t chronied it yet, but the tuner indicated it’s shooting right around 12 ftlbs, which is where I wanted it.  It has a new seal, a new buttoned piston, and a new piston liner, a re-crowned barrel, along with various other parts and pieces that needed to be massaged.

With shipping and insurance both ways, I’ve invested close to what it would cost me for a brand new HW 95 from Krale, in a gun I paid $85 for at an airgun show, but that’s not the point.  I don’t think anyone should expect to recover tuning costs in the sale of a used gun.  It’s not about adding resale value; you won’t recover it.  It’s about adding ownership value.  One should only spend this kind of money on a gun one intends to keep.  I probably won’t invest in a professional tune on any of my other guns.  But I intend to keep serial number one, and I couldn’t think of a better use of some of my stimulus money than to spread it around the airgun community. 

I won’t mention the tuner’s name here, to avoid the appearance of conflict of interest, but if you want to know who did the work, you can PM me here on the forum.  Of course, if he wishes to respond, the tuner may identify himself at his discretion.

An investment in personal satisfaction is priceless. We only go around once so let's do it like 'ol blue eyes..."I did it my way". After reading that, I'd like to shoot it too!

I can buy parts, clean, deburr, polish and correctly apply lubes. I don't know what the sum total of that is compared to a professional tune is. I do not know how to properly size a seal so you definitely got me there. I'd screw that up I believe. I do like Ed's permanent post above about stock and screw treatment. I would like to heed his advice.

All said and done, if I had a definite keeper I'd hire a professional in a minute...still may. The part I hate is the shipping! Guess I'm lazy, cause I don't mind receiving. Congrats on that fine shooter.

@straitflite

It's a funny thing.  Like I said, I bought the gun at Findlay a few years ago for $85, thinking it would be another fun project, to see what I could do with it, no real plans.  It wasn't 'til I got it home and started taking it apart that I noticed the serial number.  Then I realized I just may have the most collectable of non-collectable air rifles.  Can't sell it, why not make it the best I can?  When it's all said and done, it's still just a Chinese clone of an R9.  But DAMN it's a nice shooter now.

Ain't that the truth,I also can tune springers.I have so many and good ones,never had a "professional tune"...

    I have to down size,and when I do I will have only my keepers,,and those will get a professional tune and some may get custom wood.

     I look forward in having a lot less air guns.

Posted by: @jiminpgh

I’ve been shooting and home-tuning springers for many years...But I’m not a pro...And, I’ve never had one done for money.  Until now. 

The gun in question is an RWS B320, which we all know is a Chinese clone of the venerable Beeman R9...It was shooting a reasonably smooth 780 with 7.9g CPHP when I sent it off.

Communication from the tuner was excellent, including acknowledgement of receipt of the rifle, a series of “discovery” photos of the disassembly, a small list of parts I needed to order from JM and have direct-shipped, as well as a list of parts the tuner needed to source directly, with pricing before he made the purchase.  (All of the “discovery” parts were not included in our original agreement.)

What I received back can only be described as a different gun.  Cocking is smooth and silent, and the shot cycle is just an uneventful quick thump.  The Rekord-clone trigger breaks cleanly and predictably, with zero creep.  I haven’t chronied it yet, but the tuner indicated it’s shooting right around 12 ftlbs, which is where I wanted it.  It has a new seal, a new buttoned piston, and a new piston liner, a re-crowned barrel, along with various other parts and pieces that needed to be massaged.

With shipping and insurance both ways, I’ve invested...One should only spend this kind of money on a gun one intends to keep.  I probably won’t invest in a professional tune on any of my other guns.  But I intend to keep serial number one, and I couldn’t think of a better use of some of my stimulus money than to spread it around the airgun community. 

I won’t mention the tuner’s name here, to avoid the appearance of conflict of interest, but if you want to know who did the work, you can PM me here on the forum.  Of course, if he wishes to respond, the tuner may identify himself at his discretion.

By coincidence, I happen to know a little about that particular make and model of spring piston air rifle. I'd like to hit a couple of the high points that caught my interest. I'll start with my personal item of interest number 2...

2. When they cloned the R9, a German-made springer which eventually morphed into the HW95, the Chinese manufacturers did something right. Many of the HW guns get their model number from the stroke length, and the HW95 is no exception. It's stroke length comes in at right about 95 mm. But, getting the same velocity and FPE from the RWSB320 with its ~95 mm stroke length is harder. Why?

Well, we might be quick to point to the slightly-smaller piston seal OD of 25 mm, versus 26 mm in the HW95, but that doesn't really explain it. I say that because the older HW77 also had a 25 mm seal, and it can pretty much rival the velocity and FPE of the 95--IF you use the right mainspring and piston seal. Therein lies the key to unlocking the answer to the question.

The JM Hornet spring will fit both the HW77 and 95, but not the B320. There's just not as much room for a mainspring in the latter.

Now, that said, if instead of buying the off-the-shelf E3650 from James/ARH and adding a couple of spacers 'to the max', you go to a custom spring maker, and have him make you one with the maximum power that will fit the spring chamber (wire size and coil count), I have no doubt the velocity and FPE would probably be more. But, I foresee a POSSIBLE downside to that:

With the E3650 spring in there, spacers included, to me the B320 mirrors the R7/HW30s in its mild firing behavior, and that's some of its charm IMO. You still get more power than with the typical R7. If you max it out in the spring department, the firing behavior might change, maybe. Now, if it was my only air gun, and I just had to have a bit more power, I might go there. But, there are always other guns for that. 

So, unless you want to do something a bit more fancy when it comes to the mainspring, I don't think you should plan on maximum R9 power output.

1. The rifle, as stated, was engineered and manufactured in China, by Chinese workers. While as highly-capable and skilled as anyone else, when permitted to apply those talents, oftentimes they simply are not. They're often collared by strict bottom line time and cost constraints. Anytime that happens, quality may suffer.

Consistent with that, I've found the Chinese-made guns are often a challenge to get just right, 10 out of 10 times. If you follow the forum(s), this isn't a news flash--you've heard it before. So, be prepared to incur some added time and cost, and possibly frustration, if you're going to undertake tuning one of them.

That's not to say it can't be done. A very-nice man named Mike Melick specializes in working on certain models of Asian-made air guns, and I've heard good things about him, many times. I bought some hard-to-find items from him before myself, and he saved the day!

So, I'll stop there. FWIW, I'm told the RWSB320 was also sold as the B26, in case you're ever trying to locate one.

Good story, the kind I like to read. 

My link to the OP's topic is an actual R9 I own that was handed down to me from my father. This rifle and one more are "the ones" I plan to keep so felt they deserved some professional love. Off to Ekmeister they went and I received in return spring gun works of functional art. 

Kudos to the OP for his rifle. A solid tune really does make a springer a whole different animal, in my opinion.

I have a RWS320. I bought it along with CZ631 at a gun shop in Santa Fe. Wife had a work thing out there several years ago. I think I paid $300 for both of them. A local had them on consignment there.

Later or before, can't remember, I bought a B26-2 from FD with a MM tune. It had the high comb thumbhole stock and I bought from MM a low comb T.H. stock for it to see which I preferred. I left it in the high comb stock but later I found the RWS320 fit in the low comb stock. The 320 is in it now.

@jiminpgh

At this point I'm just going to flip all the cards, and admit I'm the guy who tuned the rifle.

To say it tried my patience is a large understatement. I've had even a German or UK gun do that, as an exception, true. But guns from countries like China or Turkey often seem to do it as a rule.

When my patience ran out--and it did--I finished the job out of sheer stubbornness, and spite towards it, lol. Those situations usually try an owner's patience, too, when they wonder what's taking so long. But, hopefully all's well that ends well if the gun is enjoyable to shoot. Let me add a comment about the time factor...

A lot of craftsmen can allow only so much time for a given job, be it a car, A/C system, or gun, then simply tell the owner there's nothing more they can do for them if things don't go as planned. The owner still usually gets a bill, and their item is returned in as good a condition as practicality allows.

You know, as time and air guns go by, I think I get it. Maybe I need to do more of that myself, I guess. I just hate to leave one in lesser condition than I think I can make it.

Psychologists even have a name for someone who thinks they have to fix everything: They call it "a savior complex". A more common description might be that some people apparently enjoy (??) beating their head against a brick wall. Yeah, ouch. Here's an example of the former situation I just described.

Before I started tuning, something like 30 years ago, that's what the old Beeman did to me. My 'Super-tuned' Marksman 70 was returned to me with the same grind in the cocking stroke for which I sent it in, AFTER I paid my $150. I called to complain. They said they'd be glad to look at it again, but I'd have to pay for shipping both ways again, plus for more labor.

Well, that's what got me started in the springer tuning business. I was told only supermen could take one apart, let alone work on one. But, I'd taken on difficult mechanical tasks before, and had almost always been successful. So after some reading and digesting what I read, I dove in. I quickly found the problem, and soon had it fixed. I even enjoyed doing it. Some years later, I was doing the work for others.

Looking for a better mousetrap in the way of a mainspring for the M70 is what led me to finding James Maccari/ARH and his parts. He'd stopped doing hands-on tuning himself by then, but he was generous with tips and such, as long as I didn't try to keep him on the phone too long, or send him too-many emails (he's a very busy man). I hope he feels at least slightly compensated by my humble purchases and referrals since then.

Back to this project.

So, the RWSB320 in question was a challenge, but I finished it. I learned a lot about it in the process. I'm already working on my next project. It's a Weihrauch gun. It will probably be a lot easier to finish.

One closing note regarding Beeman: While my Marksman 70 repair didn't go as expected, Beeman more than made up for it in many other ways back then. Does anyone remember their Used Gun List? Well, I stole--um, bought a totally-like-new R1 in perfect condition for a garage sale price. Then, I got customized help with lots of things for merely a thank you and pocket change. Don Walker had a lot to do with much of that, if anyone remembers the name.

Thanks a lot for the nice posts, Jim and hkshooter!

@jiminpgh how about a pic, I to have  a 320. When and if I can remember will check my ser. no. I recommended this rifle and 1 other to a younger lad, the other being a 94. He opted for the 94 which was a awesome piece and I hated to part with. Just recently I was informed the fella completely trashed it, I was heart broke.S ure am glad I kept the 320. Thanks for the write up, I could read this kind of work all day long.

It currently lives in what started as a high-comb B26-2 thumb-hole stock, which I recontoured into what I call a semi-rolean.  It has a slightly concave cheek piece.  It was sanded to bare wood, dyed with Transtint brown mahogany dye in isopropyl alcohol, and finished with Deft spray lacquer.   The scope is an RWS 4X32AO in a BKL 260 mount.  The cocking handle is 5/8 ID clear vinyl tubing.

Ed did the insides, I did the outsides.

@bf1956

The stock work was so pretty that I was kind of nervous the whole time it was here. I always treat them with care, but I doubled the precautions on this one. 

It's my understanding that it only gets shot at short distances. But, with the power and accuracy it had when it was done, it could easily be a capable 50+ yard gun. For that, I'd up the top end of the scope power to a minimum of 9x.

Of course, there was a time when every .22 RF came with a 4x scope in the box, and we were happy to have them. But, times have changed, and the affordable scope offerings have progressed as well.

The barrel crown needed re-surfaced to maximize the rifle"s accuracy potential. I check every one that comes in. And, Jim's crown looked perfect at first. But, when I'd spun off the bluing, it was obvious that it's depth wasn't the the same all the way around. I just removed a little metal using the brass screw and JB bore compound method, and it was fine.  

The rifle should be a good performer for a long time to come.

@jiminpgh Beautiful!

ekmeister.  Are u still tuning?  Would like your services on a HW97kt.

@nutsandbolts Don't Just Don't. Read about the forever lost R7. I wished i had.

@john Now would be a good time to provide a screenshot of the alleged email, rather than typing out things you said he said, she said.

If such an email did exist, displaying the hallmarks of the psychological abuse strategy commonly known as DARVO, it might provide a secure closure on the burial segregation and containment device. *cough* cough* fin*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARVO

Until John follows up, anyone intending to physically retrieve their lost (basketcase) might find it useful to meet with LEO for a briefing and escort to the location. FWIW, I have no dog in this fight, other than being the thing what comes around when it goes around 🤣 

I've never had Ed tune a gun for me, but he is in the same vein as the best of them.

I had two guns tuned by Paul Watts.  More than a tune, he customized them.

Both were sent to him brand new from the dealer.  I had stocks from ARH, when he was still doing stocks.  Paul did his top of the line tune.  

Custom trigger blades.  Trigger tune.  Buttoned piston.  Honed and polished everything.  Finished the stock and checkered it.

It ended up costing 1,500.00 each.  About 20 years ago?, Wow, time does fly by.

Too much?  Sure, if you want a great functional gun.  My friend had his R9 tuned without the custom stuff for a bit under 300.00 including shipping.  It shot amazing, 85% of mine.

But mine are heirloom quality.  Like the OP said, So smooth cocking and the firing cycle is just a smooth thump.  And accurate?  

Point and shoot.  Feel guilty how easy it is to hit the target.  The guns are better than I am.

These two guns, I wanted as ones to own forever.  Never will sell.  They are beautiful and the best springers I have ever shot.

The extra work and custom stocks are not necessary.  But the level of tuning done by someone who is a master is so worth it if you want that last level of excellence.

I highly recommend that you have at least one springer tuned by a master.  It is like driving a high end sports car vs a commuter.

It is not about getting your money back if you sell it.  Do it to a gun that you won't sell.  A keeper.  And enjoy the heck out of it every time you pick it up.

Jim - not that I'd expect anything else from you of course - what a great thread! Wonderful notes, wonderful responses, thought-provoking reading.